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Post by ssmith19 on May 17, 2015 18:35:54 GMT -6
I like the rule change, I'm gonna hate getting used to it. But it will definitely help when going against teams who like to cluster in the corners *hack JMU and my own team hack* and use a few balls to protect many, making it an easier call than listening to people argue the typical "no it didn't you're out" and "yes it did I'm in"
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Post by peters27 on May 17, 2015 19:06:22 GMT -6
With this new rule, if a ball is blocked but proceeds to hit another player, is that person now considered out? It sounds like a ball would no longer be "dead" until it hits the ground. Personally, I like this new rule. It would speed up the game for sure, and we would no longer have to engage in silly arguments when someone is clearly hit in the foot. No! Only the initial target is eligible to be called out with the way I wrote it. I mean specifics are definitely free for debate but I abhor the whole multiple outs on one throw or if someone blocks it into you, you're out thing. I feel like this way is clear, concise, and doesn't change things TOO much to where people would start to hate it.
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Post by natecouncil52 on May 17, 2015 19:35:28 GMT -6
This rule appears (to me) to make the game much more difficult to officiate. If soccer or hockey wanted more goals then they might as well have it where if the ball or puck hits the post then it counts as a point. Sure seems more interesting to me.
Back to dodgeball. I do not think this rule makes any sense. It adds more complications by having the refs pay more attention and then you might as well not try to block anything. There is no comfort in having a ball in your hand because you could still get out. Having strict rules on when and where a ball becomes dead is essential to this game. This dirty/clean blocking rule will be difficult to word properly. If a rule is confusing to read then it will be confusing to officiate.
Also, the hand is not a part of the ball.
Finally, in my opinion, if you want to "liven up the game" then in order to reset the shot clock the throw should have to be a throw that the opposing team has no choice but to block or catch it. That'll accomplish what this rules wants to do when it grows up.
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Post by zachb693 on May 17, 2015 19:55:41 GMT -6
At first, this change seems drastic and will make you feel uncomfortable but then you start to question all of reality and slowly it grows on you. The more I think about it, the more I like it.
In my opinion, a blocked ball should be live for all players and not just the blocker. If I block a ball and that ball still has the power to get me out then I believe that same blocked ball has the power to become a catch whether it hits me or not. This would add a whole new level to the strategy of blocking but maybe this would make it too intense of a rule change?
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Post by Paul Hillebrand on May 17, 2015 19:56:28 GMT -6
I think that this rule makes a ton of sense for the league for all of the reasons previously stated: easier to officiate, less silly arguments, speeds up the game, makes it harder to stall, easier to get outs.
The only argument against it basically is "but this is the way we've always done it".
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Post by Paul Hillebrand on May 17, 2015 20:08:17 GMT -6
Nate Council, I had missed your comment before I replied. You make a fair point that blocking becomes harder and it is something to be considered. But even though the new rule would make it somewhat harder to block, having played with the proposed rule many times before, I can definitely say that blocking is still a big part of the game and a very important skill.
Having officiated many games by both rulesets, the proposed rule makes reffing far easier. It would be an immediate adjustment for everyone involved, but in the medium and long term, it would be a tremendous change for the better.
And in regard to your proposal about changing the definition of a legit throw, I complete agree with you.
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Post by jonathanairbets7 on May 17, 2015 20:26:19 GMT -6
I see how this would speed up the game and eliminate people cheating by saying "it hit ball" but I do have a proposed problem for this. In this new rule if you "trap" the ball it would be considered a catch but what if you drop the ball you "blocked" with but you caught the ball that was thrown. Would that be considered a catch since you caught the ball or an out since you dropped the ball that you was holding?
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Post by sayre89 on May 17, 2015 20:36:05 GMT -6
For years, this was a part of the "kent" rule set, as most of you know, we also had live off people and our walls.
The simple change of allowing the elimination of players off ball deflections added speed and excitmemt to the game. I believe this was our best recruitment tool as well as creating people who could block really well in tournaments.
Most importantly, this change will make the league more accessible to teams who do not play as much but have lots of individual skill... and the champion may not reside in the murder mitten.
Great change in my book,
Josh Sayre
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Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 17, 2015 20:43:47 GMT -6
This rule appears (to me) to make the game much more difficult to officiate. If soccer or hockey wanted more goals then they might as well have it where if the ball or puck hits the post then it counts as a point. Sure seems more interesting to me. Back to dodgeball. I do not think this rule makes any sense. It adds more complications by having the refs pay more attention and then you might as well not try to block anything. There is no comfort in having a ball in your hand because you could still get out. Having strict rules on when and where a ball becomes dead is essential to this game. This dirty/clean blocking rule will be difficult to word properly. If a rule is confusing to read then it will be confusing to officiate. Also, the hand is not a part of the ball. Finally, in my opinion, if you want to "liven up the game" then in order to reset the shot clock the throw should have to be a throw that the opposing team has no choice but to block or catch it. That'll accomplish what this rules wants to do when it grows up. I know its a lot to take it since we have played with the same style for so long Nate, but almost all the other dodgeball leagues play with the proposed rule. But I think it does the opposite of what you said. Refs no longer have to determine if a ball thrown low at a player and hits them in the foot was "maybe" blocked by the player. If it hits them hes out, partial block or not. It kills every argument we have ever had at practice of if a ball was blocked or not because it doesn't matter anymore. If it hits you, you're out. No questions. As for the wording, yea it sucks right now but it will be an easy fix. Just forget you ever read the "Dirty block" part of the conversation. And I agree with proposed shot clock rule you made. Maybe it deserves its own post. And Jonathan "I see how this would speed up the game and eliminate people cheating by saying "it hit ball" but I do have a proposed problem for this. In this new rule if you "trap" the ball it would be considered a catch but what if you drop the ball you "blocked" with but you caught the ball that was thrown. Would that be considered a catch since you caught the ball or an out since you dropped the ball that you was holding?" The trap ball rule would be out the window. If you get hit with a ball and you catch it its a catch. Doesn't matter if you have 1 ball in your hand or have 2 and you pulled off a miracle catch. A catch is a catch now no matter what.
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Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 17, 2015 20:44:44 GMT -6
For years, this was a part of the "kent" rule set, as most of you know, we also had live off people and our walls. The simple change of allowing the elimination of players off ball deflections added speed and excitmemt to the game. I believe this was our best recruitment tool as well as creating people who could block really well in tournaments. Most importantly, this change will make the league more accessible to teams who do not play as much but have lots of individual skill... and the champion may not reside in the murder mitten. Great change in my book, Josh Sayre False, the Champion will always reside in the Murder Mitten.
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Post by natecouncil52 on May 17, 2015 20:46:19 GMT -6
I see how this would speed up the game and eliminate people cheating by saying "it hit ball" but I do have a proposed problem for this. In this new rule if you "trap" the ball it would be considered a catch but what if you drop the ball you "blocked" with but you caught the ball that was thrown. Would that be considered a catch since you caught the ball or an out since you dropped the ball that you was holding? I meant to bring up the trapping rule in my original post. Thank you, Jonathan, for bringing that up. I want to hear what people have to say about the questions he asked. I believe them to be legitimate concerns.
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Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 17, 2015 21:03:59 GMT -6
I see how this would speed up the game and eliminate people cheating by saying "it hit ball" but I do have a proposed problem for this. In this new rule if you "trap" the ball it would be considered a catch but what if you drop the ball you "blocked" with but you caught the ball that was thrown. Would that be considered a catch since you caught the ball or an out since you dropped the ball that you was holding? I meant to bring up the trapping rule in my original post. Thank you, Jonathan, for bringing that up. I want to hear what people have to say about the questions he asked. I believe them to be legitimate concerns. Ahhh totally misread that. This is something someone who plays in Elite dodgeball or the other dodgeball league needs to answer as to how they make a ruling on this. I'm sure they have a rule for this already in place. I want to remind everyone that these rules are being formed and shaped to HELP the NCDA. They wont be voted on for almost a year from now. So everyones input is welcomed and needed as long as its constructive. Nothing will help the NCDA better than passionate people trying to further the NCDA for the better. So tell your friends, captains, and alumni so we can get as many ideas as possible. Also a side request, PLEASE USE YOUR REAL NAME IN THE FORUMS. It makes a world of difference when discussing these things knowing who you guys are.
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Post by Gregsvsu on May 17, 2015 21:26:37 GMT -6
No! That is all.
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Post by peters27 on May 18, 2015 4:52:20 GMT -6
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Post by peters27 on May 18, 2015 4:54:14 GMT -6
I meant to bring up the trapping rule in my original post. Thank you, Jonathan, for bringing that up. I want to hear what people have to say about the questions he asked. I believe them to be legitimate concerns. Ahhh totally misread that. This is something someone who plays in Elite dodgeball or the other dodgeball league needs to answer as to how they make a ruling on this. I'm sure they have a rule for this already in place. I want to remind everyone that these rules are being formed and shaped to HELP the NCDA. They wont be voted on for almost a year from now. So everyones input is welcomed and needed as long as its constructive. Nothing will help the NCDA better than passionate people trying to further the NCDA for the better. So tell your friends, captains, and alumni so we can get as many ideas as possible. Also a side request, PLEASE USE YOUR REAL NAME IN THE FORUMS. It makes a world of difference when discussing these things knowing who you guys are. What do you mean, I think this is something that we should vote whether to change now (June, or whenever Zig said we would vote on the other rules). This may require additional time to chew on and discuss, but I think this is a rule that if adopted, and most people seem to be in favor of it, should be adopted ASAP.
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