|
Post by WKU-Perrone-76 on Apr 30, 2015 23:28:23 GMT -6
3.3.4.5.2 Officials' Timeouts - If an Official calls a Timeout, both team's Shot Clock counts are immediately reset to zero (0)
Rationale: It's fair
|
|
|
Post by peters27 on May 4, 2015 14:54:21 GMT -6
agree
|
|
|
Post by cobrien18 on May 5, 2015 11:04:22 GMT -6
I agree, only stipulation I might add would be in specific cases at the referee's discretion, one team may have their shot clock reset to 5 seconds if there was a clear discrepancy in the shot clocks of the two teams. The team with the higher shot clock would have their shot clock reset to 5 seconds, while the other team has theirs reset to 0.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 11, 2015 13:08:12 GMT -6
I would go with the rule we have for when teams call timeouts of their own. Have both teams clocks rounded down to 10, 5, 0 etc. That way teams don't get a full mulligan for a referee pow wow.
|
|
|
Post by GVSU-Bailey on May 11, 2015 16:44:10 GMT -6
I don't think both teams should be reset to 0 and here's why:
In the Nationals Day-2 game that I reffed between UK and UMD, the scoreboard malfunctioned probably 10 times throughout the game. Each time I had to use an "officials' timeout" to stop play. We had the counters pick back up where they left off with their shot clock and it never was an issue.
Having both teams go back to zero would benefit the team that was supposed to throw next because now they are even with the other teams clock. It would have only a minor effect on the ball-advantage, but in any case other than when both teams had even shot-clock beforehand, it benefits one team and hurts the other.
I just think that the most fair way to go about an officials' timeout is to keep the clocks the same as what they were when the timeout was called. This won't give either team an unnecessary advantage so there really is no reason to change it to having both clocks go to zero.
|
|
|
Post by Zigmister on May 11, 2015 22:26:08 GMT -6
I'd rather have the current rule that Jardine mentions:
But my addition is something like:
Referee's Count Discretion - If necessary, the Head or Assistant Referee may reset any team's Shot Clock Count to a lower increment of five. (i'm having trouble wording this nicely, tbh)
Basically, Ref can decide clock is at zero, five, or ten. Don't apply any reasoning, keep it open and at the Referee's discretion. There are so many situations where this is needed, from correcting faulty equipment to officiating issues to setting plays straight.
A timeout is a disruption in play, and an official's timeout a disruption to both teams. The fairest way is that the count must round down in some way.
|
|
|
Post by cobrien18 on May 11, 2015 23:21:21 GMT -6
I agree with Zig
|
|
|
Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 13, 2015 13:37:20 GMT -6
I'd rather have the current rule that Jardine mentions: But my addition is something like: Referee's Count Discretion - If necessary, the Head or Assistant Referee may reset any team's Shot Clock Count to a lower increment of five. (i'm having trouble wording this nicely, tbh) Basically, Ref can decide clock is at zero, five, or ten. Don't apply any reasoning, keep it open and at the Referee's discretion. There are so many situations where this is needed, from correcting faulty equipment to officiating issues to setting plays straight. A timeout is a disruption in play, and an official's timeout a disruption to both teams. The fairest way is that the count must round down in some way. Nailed it.
|
|
|
Post by WKU-Perrone-76 on May 16, 2015 17:16:43 GMT -6
I'd rather have the current rule that Jardine mentions: But my addition is something like: Referee's Count Discretion - If necessary, the Head or Assistant Referee may reset any team's Shot Clock Count to a lower increment of five. (i'm having trouble wording this nicely, tbh) Basically, Ref can decide clock is at zero, five, or ten. Don't apply any reasoning, keep it open and at the Referee's discretion. There are so many situations where this is needed, from correcting faulty equipment to officiating issues to setting plays straight. A timeout is a disruption in play, and an official's timeout a disruption to both teams. The fairest way is that the count must round down in some way. Are you suggesting the ref can change the shot clock of one team to 0 and the other to 5 when a timeout is called? If so, I can already hear all the pregnant doging.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 16, 2015 23:52:14 GMT -6
Thinking on it more. I do believe giving the refs that kind of discretion would really cause more harm than good. I would vote to just have the team timeout rule applied to ref timeouts.
|
|
|
Post by peters27 on May 17, 2015 7:26:03 GMT -6
Thinking on it more. I do believe giving the refs that kind of discretion would really cause more harm than good. I would vote to just have the team timeout rule applied to ref timeouts. It doesn't seem that bad for most scenarios, like if the game is still fairly evenly matched, but if a team is down to like one or two players, and they have to start at 10 and make a legit throw in 5 seconds, when they would've made one perfectly fine had the timeout not been called, that really screws them over. I think if we're going to do something with this rule, it should be both teams going down to zero, which can kind of hurt one team and help another, but resetting everything has never SCREWED a team over.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 17, 2015 16:43:28 GMT -6
I have yet to see someones clock being set down to 10 big a big deal since we enacted the "Timeout round down" rule years ago. Heck I have never seen a complaint about it ever. And 5 seconds is a lifetime to get a legit in before a clock violation, so I really do believe its the right solution to the problem.
However if you do feel THAT strong about it Wessssssss try this on for size. If an officials timeout is called for any reason team with shot clocks 8 seconds or above have their clocks rounded down to 8 (Or stays the same at 8). If a team can't get a legit play off in 7 seconds they don't deserve to have the dodgeballs. Teams with 7 seconds or less go down to 0. Maybe have this be the rule for team time outs as well but I would advice against that since we are trying to bring scoring up. But again, I like the rule we already have in place.
|
|
|
Post by peters27 on May 17, 2015 19:29:03 GMT -6
I have yet to see someones clock being set down to 10 big a big deal since we enacted the "Timeout round down" rule years ago. Heck I have never seen a complaint about it ever. And 5 seconds is a lifetime to get a legit in before a clock violation, so I really do believe its the right solution to the problem. However if you do feel THAT strong about it Wessssssss try this on for size. If an officials timeout is called for any reason team with shot clocks 8 seconds or above have their clocks rounded down to 8 (Or stays the same at 8). If a team can't get a legit play off in 7 seconds they don't deserve to have the dodgeballs. Teams with 7 seconds or less go down to 0. Maybe have this be the rule for team time outs as well but I would advice against that since we are trying to bring scoring up. But again, I like the rule we already have in place. I'm just saying, depending on the players on the court and the degree of their experience, only having 5 seconds to go the length of the court could prove to be a big issue for them. Not to mention how out of position it puts them, especially if they're not as confident in throwing long, forcing them to run up much farther than they really should in such a situation. I don't know. Maybe I'm worried about nothing.
|
|
|
Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 17, 2015 20:47:20 GMT -6
I have yet to see someones clock being set down to 10 big a big deal since we enacted the "Timeout round down" rule years ago. Heck I have never seen a complaint about it ever. And 5 seconds is a lifetime to get a legit in before a clock violation, so I really do believe its the right solution to the problem. However if you do feel THAT strong about it Wessssssss try this on for size. If an officials timeout is called for any reason team with shot clocks 8 seconds or above have their clocks rounded down to 8 (Or stays the same at 8). If a team can't get a legit play off in 7 seconds they don't deserve to have the dodgeballs. Teams with 7 seconds or less go down to 0. Maybe have this be the rule for team time outs as well but I would advice against that since we are trying to bring scoring up. But again, I like the rule we already have in place. I'm just saying, depending on the players on the court and the degree of their experience, only having 5 seconds to go the length of the court could prove to be a big issue for them. Not to mention how out of position it puts them, especially if they're not as confident in throwing long, forcing them to run up much farther than they really should in such a situation. I don't know. Maybe I'm worried about nothing. I get it, but we have had the "Team timeout" rule in effect for a full 3 seasons now and I didn't see any problems or complaints about it in my 2 years playing with it and as far as a know none this last year I didn't play. I think we will be alright with it.
|
|
|
Post by Zigmister on May 18, 2015 18:40:42 GMT -6
I'd rather have the current rule that Jardine mentions: But my addition is something like: Referee's Count Discretion - If necessary, the Head or Assistant Referee may reset any team's Shot Clock Count to a lower increment of five. (i'm having trouble wording this nicely, tbh) Basically, Ref can decide clock is at zero, five, or ten. Don't apply any reasoning, keep it open and at the Referee's discretion. There are so many situations where this is needed, from correcting faulty equipment to officiating issues to setting plays straight. A timeout is a disruption in play, and an official's timeout a disruption to both teams. The fairest way is that the count must round down in some way. Are you suggesting the ref can change the shot clock of one team to 0 and the other to 5 when a timeout is called? If so, I can already hear all the pregnant doging. My best conclusion is to have the clock round down to the nearest 5th by default. IF a problem occurs, the Referee (Head or Asst) discerns of their own volition that the clock should be somewhere else, they can declare the increment of 5 where the clock is going to be. It's an execption rule and an edge case, but I think it's needed for many cases of equipment malfunction of a bad officiating mechanic issue. We have to give our Officials the benefit of the doubt that they know much more what is going on in the entire game than any particular team does. It's their Job to determine a game is being conducted fairly. And in the overall scheme of the game, the particular Referee's Discretion will affect VERY little. a very extreme edge case, but necessary for fairness.
|
|