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Post by peters27 on May 12, 2015 9:06:10 GMT -6
Now hear me out on this, because I've been just as big a supporter of "if it hits the ball at all it's dead" as the next guy, but we're all clearly looking for ways to speed up the game, and this might be the easiest way to accomplish this. As it stands, if the ball that is thrown makes contact with another ball in any way, the thrown ball is immediately ruled dead, and any contact with a player following that is irrelevant. What if we changed the rule to the following (more or less): If player A throws a ball, and player B blocks the ball cleanly and the next thing it hits after player B's ball is the ground or ceiling or any object or person that is not player B, the ball is dead. However, if player A's thrown ball makes contact with the ball player B is blocking with, and then hits player B anywhere except the hand (because I still think the hand should be considered part of the ball, another debate perhaps) and he or a teammate fails to catch player A's ball, he is out. As a result of this rule, I think that we should also move to a rule where if player B blocks player A's thrown ball, and then it hits player B, and they or a teammate catches it, it is a catch (or team catch). Still no multiple ricochet outs or anything like that. I think that would simplify a lot of the game so much, it would make the game so much faster and easier for the referees to officiate. You would see a lot more hits, a lot more attempted throws on people who are holding balls in situations where you normally would not throw at them, a LOT more catches (  ), and in general a much faster game, and perhaps, many more points scored in games between teams that are very evenly matched. This would also eliminate trap situations where a player is holding a ball, and naturally uses the ball they are holding to catch (trap) a thrown ball, because it would simply be ruled a catch. Thoughts? |
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Post by peters27 on May 12, 2015 9:13:56 GMT -6
I think we need to shift the focus away from changing the "pace" of the game via the shot clocks and what not the more I've been thinking about it, and perhaps make a shift in the way we actually go about playing the game.
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Post by Zigmister on May 12, 2015 16:21:35 GMT -6
i couldn't focus with the A-B players, so i cleaned it up so i could:
3.4.2.3 Blocking - A Target may use any dodgeball to block any thrown ball, but the blocking dodgeball(s) must remain secure and it must be a clean block.
3.4.2.3.x Clean Block - If a Target blocks a Thrower's ball cleanly and the deflected ball makes next contact with any part of the environment that is not the Blocking Target, the ball is blocked and declared dead.
3.4.2.3.x Dirty Block - If a thrown ball deflects off the blocking ball, and then hits the Blocking Target anywhere except the hand, the Target must make a Catch on the deflected ball. Failure results in the Target being ruled out. [*note, i nixed the team dirty block catch, for clarity]
As a result of this rule, I think that we should also move to a rule where:
3.4.1.2.x - Blocking Ricochet Team Catch - If the Target blocks a directly thrown ball but it deflects and makes contact with the Blocking Target's person, the Target or a Teammate may catch the ricocheted ball. If successful, it is deemed a Team Catch.
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Ah, so this is "dirty" vs "clean" blocking.
In my officiating experience in Elite, clean blocking is horrible to officiate, dirty blocking is easier. 55+ mph throws make it tough to read data going at that speed. A deflected ball makes a strong audio cue (swiping rubber), then makes a very soft audible cue when it hits the Blocking Target. That last event often gets lost in the other sounds of the game.
Dirty blocking relies on 2 sources: the strong audio cue of the initial block deflection, and visual data of the ball deflecting off a ball.
Clean blocking relies on 3 sources: the strong audio cue of the initial block deflection, a weak audio cue of the ball deflecting into the person, the visual data of the ball deflecting off a ball, and the visual data of the ball hitting or often times skimming a persons leg or uniform.
One of the reasons I'm in favor of dirty blocking over clean blocking.
Also, administratively, this redefinition would require a small overhaul of the way we define Team Catches, Clean Direct/Team Catches, and Trap Catches. Those sections would need to be revisted.
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Post by GVSU-Bailey on May 12, 2015 19:05:10 GMT -6
I'm going to have to agree with Wes on this one, other than the part where he says the hand should be considered part of the ball (Wes that is the dumbest thing you have ever said). But honestly, I think this change would benefit the league by speeding up play (thus making it more exciting), and also by simplifying the tasks for refs (because they don't have to deal with you cheaters out there who like to say you blocked the ball first before it hit you in the foot even if your ball never made contact with the thrown ball).
In the past I would say I hate dodgeball formats that use the blocking rule where the ball is live until it hits the floor, but it was just because I wasn't familiar with that way of playing and not used to it. Wes thank you for proposing this very necessary change, and thank you for eliminating the part of the rule that Elite uses where blocked ball is considered live and can hit a teammate and eliminate them. I think the way Wes proposed it is the ideal way to play.
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Post by peters27 on May 12, 2015 21:43:45 GMT -6
What's wrong with your hand being part of the ball?! I thought we as a league enjoyed mimicking basketball??
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Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 13, 2015 13:11:07 GMT -6
Of all the rule changes we could ever make this would be the most drastic one the NCDA has ever made. More drastic then us changing the opening rush. So I would deff want more teams to get involved in this thread, but I have to admit I like your proposal Wes. And I agree, hands should be a part of the ball like it always has been. If people want more scoring, this is the way to go. Forget the shot clock.
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Post by cobrien18 on May 13, 2015 14:00:43 GMT -6
After thinking about this for a while, I have to say I like this proposal for a couple of reasons.
First, it makes blocking more of a skill. Currently, blocking does not require a great deal of skill. Changing the rule to this proposal would increase the skill to block. Players would have to make sure to block the ball away from themselves as opposed to just making sure they blocked the ball and nothing else.
Second, we are trying to think of ways to decrease stall ball. This proposal would make it easier to eliminate players. Situations that this idea addresses happens all the time, so there would be that many more people getting thrown out.
Finally, it would really make riffing easier. Some of the hardest decisions are when the ref has to decide whether the thrown ball hit the blocked ball first or not. Under this proposal, it is far easier to tell whether or not the ball hit the target, regardless of whether it was blocked.
For all of those reasons, I like this proposal. But I agree with Spencer, we need more teams involved in the conversation, on this issue especially.
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Post by Dylan Fettig on May 13, 2015 19:25:30 GMT -6
I was actually going to suggest this exact rule (minus the hand thing....DUMB) I think it would really clean up the game, make officiating and spectating easier, and reduce players complaining.
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Post by peters27 on May 13, 2015 22:18:00 GMT -6
Good thing everyone participates on the forums right!  |
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Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 13, 2015 22:42:40 GMT -6
Good thing everyone participates on the forums right! I was gonna give it a few days for the forum veterans to throw the idea around then post the thread to the NCDA Facebook page to get more people in here. Which will then start a nuts storm. Which is why I wanted us to hammer out the gritty details before the horde descends upon us. |
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Post by GVSU-Bailey on May 14, 2015 14:58:59 GMT -6
Right now Zigmas plus the state of Michigan cares about this topic and that is all..
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Post by peters27 on May 15, 2015 7:14:45 GMT -6
Okay so the general consensus between everyone who's shared their thoughts so far is that we all like the rule, with probably 50/50 on hand being part of the ball. Great. I want more people talking about this. Share! Share!
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Post by WKU-Perrone-76 on May 16, 2015 17:09:20 GMT -6
Hands are not balls. God... How did you graduate?  Okay, so I'm not totally opposed to this. I think it would definitely liven things up a bit in our league. Has anyone ever tried this type of thing during a practice or scrimmage? If so, how did it go? We used to do a drill where there was no blocking allowed at all as a way to force people to drop-catch. It seemed to work really well, except for those who are so used to blocking, then they just got those deer-in-headlights look as the ball was approaching. If this type of rule would pass, we would have to fully expect the first two months of dodgeball to be terrible. All the veterans will have to shake their habits, and will more than likely get out on silly things like that. |
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Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 17, 2015 17:50:00 GMT -6
Okay so the general consensus between everyone who's shared their thoughts so far is that we all like the rule, with probably 50/50 on hand being part of the ball. Great. I want more people talking about this. Share! Share! Okay man, I'm about to post it on the NCDA FB page. Get ready. |
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Post by Jeremy Brown on May 17, 2015 18:27:28 GMT -6
With this new rule, if a ball is blocked but proceeds to hit another player, is that person now considered out? It sounds like a ball would no longer be "dead" until it hits the ground.
Personally, I like this new rule. It would speed up the game for sure, and we would no longer have to engage in silly arguments when someone is clearly hit in the foot.
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), and in general a much faster game, and perhaps, many more points scored in games between teams that are very evenly matched.
