|
Post by colemanmy12 on May 18, 2015 9:19:38 GMT -6
This is huge but great, I think the best blockers were always the ones that actively swatted the ball away from themselves and teammates rather than simply making themselves a smaller target and putting the ball in front anyways. This rewards the active and skillful blocking and rewarding active/skillful play is awesome. However, I don't think traps should be eliminated. My observation is that catches, especially accidental catches are far more common in situations when the intended target is holding a ball and the thrown ball gets caught in a pocket and slowed by friction. I really don't think that should be rewarded to the same degree as a bare handed grab. Proposal: bare handed catches result in a +1, -1 swing Traps result in a +1 swing
|
|
|
Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on May 18, 2015 10:59:11 GMT -6
Ahhh totally misread that. This is something someone who plays in Elite dodgeball or the other dodgeball league needs to answer as to how they make a ruling on this. I'm sure they have a rule for this already in place. I want to remind everyone that these rules are being formed and shaped to HELP the NCDA. They wont be voted on for almost a year from now. So everyones input is welcomed and needed as long as its constructive. Nothing will help the NCDA better than passionate people trying to further the NCDA for the better. So tell your friends, captains, and alumni so we can get as many ideas as possible. Also a side request, PLEASE USE YOUR REAL NAME IN THE FORUMS. It makes a world of difference when discussing these things knowing who you guys are. What do you mean, I think this is something that we should vote whether to change now (June, or whenever Zig said we would vote on the other rules). This may require additional time to chew on and discuss, but I think this is a rule that if adopted, and most people seem to be in favor of it, should be adopted ASAP. We can do that? Change rules in the summer? I didn't know if that was a thing or not. If we could do it that would be awesome. If we do try to do that I think we need to send emails out to the current captains to make sure they have seen this thread though. I would hate for the rule to be shot down because the first time people see it is in the voting email sent out.
|
|
|
Post by Zigmister on May 18, 2015 18:08:14 GMT -6
I guess I'm one of the few that actually thinks Clean Blocking is harder to officiate. Oh well.
To clarify, all rules will be refined by the Exec Board for a late summer vote amongst the Member Teams, taking into account all the conversation we've done in the forums and the fireside chats. Meaning that the Exec Board will put it into handy rule clauses for the preferential votes.
Good conversation here!
|
|
|
Post by Eric Fisher VCU#10 on May 18, 2015 19:25:40 GMT -6
Just got word of this rule change. I am fairly new to NCDA dodgeball but have been playing mostly foam ball for a few years. I will say that without a doubt i prefer this new rule change. I think i bring it up everytime I am at a tournament, but i may be biased because that is how i started playing dodgeball. The way i see it, you have a ball thrown at you and you attempt to block the ball with the ball you are holding. You make contact with the incoming thrown ball with your blocker ball but the thrown ball still hits you. In my eyes you have failed to block the ball from yourself and therefore are out. It is much easier to ref because the player cannot say that it hit ball first. That statement will be mute.
With the question about when a blocked ball is knocked out of your hands but you catch the thrown ball. The way I have seen it ruled is that you would have to make the catch on the thrown ball before the dropped ball hits the ground. That is tough to ref in 15v15. Since the dropped is still live the player is not out yet and would still be able to make a play on the thrown ball. Once the dropped hits the ground then the player is out and can no longer make a play.
Just putting in another opiniong
|
|
|
Post by natecouncil52 on May 18, 2015 22:09:03 GMT -6
After thinking it over (I'm very anti-change when initially introduced to it) I do believe this would make it easier to ref and have the game run smoother. I am all for any rule that could potentially eliminate cheating and arguing. Nothing hinders this league more than consistent stoppage of play because someone is pregnant doging. I know I hate to be part of a game where that is happening, I couldn't imagine watching it. You're not good enough to block the ball in a way that is goes away from you or straight into the ground then get off the court. Im pro this rule change.
I'd like to maybe open up a page about my proposed rule change: in order to reset the shot clock the ball must be thrown in a manner that the opposing team has no choice but to catch it, block it, or dodge it. No more of this subjective lunge/playable space.
|
|
|
Post by Paul Hillebrand on May 19, 2015 6:40:32 GMT -6
I second Nate's redefinition of legitimate throw.
|
|
|
Post by Zigmister on May 19, 2015 22:16:48 GMT -6
After thinking it over (I'm very anti-change when initially introduced to it) I do believe this would make it easier to ref and have the game run smoother. I am all for any rule that could potentially eliminate cheating and arguing. Nothing hinders this league more than consistent stoppage of play because someone is pregnant doging. I know I hate to be part of a game where that is happening, I couldn't imagine watching it. You're not good enough to block the ball in a way that is goes away from you or straight into the ground then get off the court. Im pro this rule change. I'd like to maybe open up a page about my proposed rule change: in order to reset the shot clock the ball must be thrown in a manner that the opposing team has no choice but to catch it, block it, or dodge it. No more of this subjective lunge/playable space. Nate, please open up a new thread with this so we can ensure conversation remains on topic. I believe it would be a good rule to talk about on its own.
|
|
|
Post by Michael Riley-CMU on May 22, 2015 11:56:10 GMT -6
I like it. As long as it doesn't progress into some pinball BS effect then I'm all for it. Block better. As for the catch/trap debate of what if you drop your current ball while catching or yata yata; if you catch the ball - it's a catch. This rule should enable it to be as simple as that. Last but not least, the hand is part of the ball. The hand is part of the ball in basketball, the hand is part of the bat in baseball, and the hand is part of the ball in dodgeball. Church.
|
|
|
Post by carruthersmsu on May 22, 2015 11:59:34 GMT -6
I am not in favor of this rule. I feel this new block rule will not stop people from complaining and it will not make things that much easier for the ref.
When certain people get out and they feel the ball did not touch them(which I am sure has happened to just about everyone) instead of walking out because what the ref days goes, whether it is a good call or a bad call. People are going to argue their point. It did not matter how blatant the hit has been in the past, so I don't really see why this change will quell any debating.
Being a ref is hard work, pain and simple. Before this rule they were listening/looking for sound/cues and initial hits. Now they may have to watch one player seconds longer depending on how the ball is deflected. (I.E. *with the new block rule* someone deflects the ball straight into the air. The ref has to watch where this ball drops, watch if it touches the person who deflected it, and possibly watch if a teammate touches it before the deflector does. All the while paying attention to the other balls being thrown.) I personally feel that is a lot to take in as a ref.
The reason why I feel this rule works better with foam balls, is because they're foam balls. Rubber balls take a completely different type of bounce after being deflected. Foam balls after being deflected often do not have the same bounce trajectory as their rubber counterparts.
Finally, this rule will limit the different ways in which one can play dodgeball. Over the years I have slowly watched all of the teams basically adopt the same play style. That is what i feel has made the game monotonous and more boring to watch. People with similar play styles like myself, enjoy getting in close and attacking and using fast countering to our advantage, opposed to waiting in the back and throwing the ball as hard as you can once the opportunity finally presented itself. I feel that when you have to worry about whether or not a ball you deflected is going to touch your body after deflection, it makes you play even more cautious because you now don't have the same security as before. People such as myself, who do not have a power throw develop different ways to play the game to compensate for our lack of strength. I feel a vote for this is a vote for a uniform way of play.
Final Thought(sorry so lengthy)
If you really want to speed up play, then how about everyone do just that, and speed up. I see so many people just holding the ball. Waiting for the "perfect opportunity", when they should just make their own opportunity. I know this new rule is suppose to stop those people from holding the ball, but I think we should really look at all the other things it will hinder and not make such rash decisions.
|
|
|
Post by ssmith19 on May 22, 2015 14:04:03 GMT -6
I am not in favor of this rule. I feel this new block rule will not stop people from complaining and it will not make things that much easier for the ref. When certain people get out and they feel the ball did not touch them(which I am sure has happened to just about everyone) instead of walking out because what the ref days goes, whether it is a good call or a bad call. People are going to argue their point. It did not matter how blatant the hit has been in the past, so I don't really see why this change will quell any debating. Being a ref is hard work, pain and simple. Before this rule they were listening/looking for sound/cues and initial hits. Now they may have to watch one player seconds longer depending on how the ball is deflected. (I.E. *with the new block rule* someone deflects the ball straight into the air. The ref has to watch where this ball drops, watch if it touches the person who deflected it, and possibly watch if a teammate touches it before the deflector does. All the while paying attention to the other balls being thrown.) I personally feel that is a lot to take in as a ref. The reason why I feel this rule works better with foam balls, is because they're foam balls. Rubber balls take a completely different type of bounce after being deflected. Foam balls after being deflected often do not have the same bounce trajectory as their rubber counterparts. Finally, this rule will limit the different ways in which one can play dodgeball. Over the years I have slowly watched all of the teams basically adopt the same play style. That is what i feel has made the game monotonous and more boring to watch. People with similar play styles like myself, enjoy getting in close and attacking and using fast countering to our advantage, opposed to waiting in the back and throwing the ball as hard as you can once the opportunity finally presented itself. I feel that when you have to worry about whether or not a ball you deflected is going to touch your body after deflection, it makes you play even more cautious because you now don't have the same security as before. People such as myself, who do not have a power throw develop different ways to play the game to compensate for our lack of strength. I feel a vote for this is a vote for a uniform way of play. Final Thought(sorry so lengthy) If you really want to speed up play, then how about everyone do just that, and speed up. I see so many people just holding the ball. Waiting for the "perfect opportunity", when they should just make their own opportunity. I know this new rule is suppose to stop those people from holding the ball, but I think we should really look at all the other things it will hinder and not make such rash decisions. I dont have a power throw either, but I've played with this rule and while there was an adjustment period, it dod speed it up and actually made people with throws that arent as hard get better opportunities cuz they can make sneakier throws that are hard to block cleanly
|
|
|
Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on Jun 10, 2015 11:18:34 GMT -6
So its been a while since this has been posted and I think the majority are in favor but I still don't see a lot of people from some of the major teams in the NCDA involved in the discussion. Is there anyway we can email this thread to the current captains of each team? So they can read up on this thing before the end of the summer?
|
|
|
Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on Jun 10, 2015 11:35:19 GMT -6
I am not in favor of this rule. I feel this new block rule will not stop people from complaining and it will not make things that much easier for the ref. When certain people get out and they feel the ball did not touch them(which I am sure has happened to just about everyone) instead of walking out because what the ref days goes, whether it is a good call or a bad call. People are going to argue their point. It did not matter how blatant the hit has been in the past, so I don't really see why this change will quell any debating. Being a ref is hard work, pain and simple. Before this rule they were listening/looking for sound/cues and initial hits. Now they may have to watch one player seconds longer depending on how the ball is deflected. (I.E. *with the new block rule* someone deflects the ball straight into the air. The ref has to watch where this ball drops, watch if it touches the person who deflected it, and possibly watch if a teammate touches it before the deflector does. All the while paying attention to the other balls being thrown.) I personally feel that is a lot to take in as a ref. The reason why I feel this rule works better with foam balls, is because they're foam balls. Rubber balls take a completely different type of bounce after being deflected. Foam balls after being deflected often do not have the same bounce trajectory as their rubber counterparts. Finally, this rule will limit the different ways in which one can play dodgeball. Over the years I have slowly watched all of the teams basically adopt the same play style. That is what i feel has made the game monotonous and more boring to watch. People with similar play styles like myself, enjoy getting in close and attacking and using fast countering to our advantage, opposed to waiting in the back and throwing the ball as hard as you can once the opportunity finally presented itself. I feel that when you have to worry about whether or not a ball you deflected is going to touch your body after deflection, it makes you play even more cautious because you now don't have the same security as before. People such as myself, who do not have a power throw develop different ways to play the game to compensate for our lack of strength. I feel a vote for this is a vote for a uniform way of play. Final Thought(sorry so lengthy) If you really want to speed up play, then how about everyone do just that, and speed up. I see so many people just holding the ball. Waiting for the "perfect opportunity", when they should just make their own opportunity. I know this new rule is suppose to stop those people from holding the ball, but I think we should really look at all the other things it will hinder and not make such rash decisions. Listen, we are always gonna have "those" guys who argue calls till the end of time, but at least with this rule we are ensuring more people are getting out with simple plays like a ball being deflected into their own foot by their block or guys who "might" of blocked a ball that hit them. Now the argument is gone in this aspect of the game. "Sorry buddy, you "might" of blocked it but it hit your shoulder so you're out anyways" I think its way easier for a ref to see if a player was hit by a ball than if they might of gotten ball on it. After the initial block a ref won't have to continue to watch the ball because we are not enacting the "pinball" rule everyone seems to think will go with this rule. If it hits ball and hits the player it was aiming for thats and out, but you can't get multiple players out with a throw. From talking with people who play in tournaments with this rule they use foam AND rubber dodgeballs that we use and they swear up and down its easier for the refs to enforce than our set of rules. And I agree, teams have all pretty much adopted the same corner strategy that started with Michigan teams and it HAS made game monotonous. With this rule I have a feeling players are going to have to change their playing style and it will really open up games. At the very least we will see players get out more. More players getting out = more points in a game = more entertainment for the fans. Every major sport in the world is trying to increase scoring in their games over the years. From the NBA putting in the 3 point line, the NFL becoming a pass happy league, to the NHL getting ride of the clutch and grab style of the 90's to let forwards have more scoring chances, we should be looking to do the same. The NCDA has evolved itself in just the past decade going from open palm throwing to the grip throws which increased the scoring of the game. Surly our players can adjust again.
|
|
|
Post by colemanmy12 on Jun 11, 2015 9:15:57 GMT -6
Proposal: bare handed catches result in a +1, -1 swing Traps result in a +1 Suggestion was never addressed but I think it's important to highlight the difference and reward the more skill based play. Also, I agree with Spencer. Let's get some direct replies from the league's captain's
|
|
|
Post by peters27 on Jun 11, 2015 17:18:52 GMT -6
Proposal: bare handed catches result in a +1, -1 swing Traps result in a +1 Suggestion was never addressed but I think it's important to highlight the difference and reward the more skill based play. Also, I agree with Spencer. Let's get some direct replies from the league's captain's I would be 100% in favor of this.
|
|
|
Post by GVSU-Bailey on Jun 14, 2015 13:33:23 GMT -6
I agree with Wes. This rule needs to be adopted as soon as possible. It would be the best change to the NCDA rule-set since we added 6 v 6 overtime a few years ago. Nearly every other type of dodgeball uses blocking rules similar to this, and it has worked well for them.
I'd love to see us playing with this new block rule in September!
|
|