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Post by x502xedgex on Apr 12, 2011 17:21:30 GMT -6
the situation for ref at this years nationals was something that neither anyone wanted, nor really expected. the suggestion of paid ref's were brought up at the 2010 nationals, and well felix delivered there. while yes i agree whole heartily that the ref's were intimidated by the players, and that they could have done some things better, i also believe that the players that show anger towards something like a bad call, or not being able to hear the shot clock should keep in mind that no one is perfect. i have yet to find someone on the forums, or someone that has talked to me over Facebook that hasn't apologized for an outburst that they had due to something like this. that right there shows that we all lose our cool at some point, and the fact that those people are willing to admit they are wrong shows just what kind of people those individuals are. to those of you who may have had an outburst but feel they were justified in acting out of line (im not saying that this happened nor am i calling ANYONE out by saying this) due to the ref not being fully trained, or not being able to hear a shot clock, even if the call potentially lost you the game. then heres something that you should read that was written by bomis. love him or hate him, this article has a wonderful message that any player, and any team can take home. ncdadodgeball.com/perfection.htmlnone of us are perfect, no human is. but we have to realize that on any level of play, wether professional or this sport that so many of us love, theres going to be errors, we as teams need to realize the potential of these errors, adapt to them, and play, wether it be a fast shot clock, a shot clock that cant be heard or a call by the ref...just adapt and play the game that we all love.
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Post by willhack on Apr 12, 2011 17:54:53 GMT -6
Yeah I don't have a problem with the refs who were trying but made incorrect calls. That is bound to happen at any level of competition or professionalism.
My complaint is about those referees who weren't even attempting to follow the game. One ref spent much of our game texting. I heard another remark, "I usually just stare straight ahead at that beam." And many of them were too timid to make any kind of call, they just waited for the players to resolve it.
Overall, it just seems that the paid referee experiment failed. It was a very good idea, but I think this just shows that player-refs are better.
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Post by stokesj on Apr 12, 2011 20:22:59 GMT -6
It all depended. Some of the paid refs were crap, but others were very good. The two refs that reffed the championship game were totally legit even though they essentially had a "dodgeball for dummies" rulebook. The same always goes for player refs as it did with the paid refs, it all depends on the person reffing. Sometimes you get a ref that takes it seriously and other times they are just trying to get through the game. I can think of 3 or 4 refs that did a good job and I can also think of 3 or 4 refs that did a horrid job. The only difference when a player refs a game it's usually because they volunteered therefore are more likely to do a good job.
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Post by ktakeda on Apr 12, 2011 21:16:59 GMT -6
Yeah I don't have a problem with the refs who were trying but made incorrect calls. That is bound to happen at any level of competition or professionalism. My complaint is about those referees who weren't even attempting to follow the game. One ref spent much of our game texting. I heard another remark, "I usually just stare straight ahead at that beam." And many of them were too timid to make any kind of call, they just waited for the players to resolve it. I completely agree with this. I can only remember one ref in particular from the Moody/Miami of Ohio game and then from our game vs. NSU. I know that the iPhone is some great thing but using it as a timer was asking for trouble. The games I sat out I could see the ref blatantly texting because he just didn't glance at the time, he legitimately stared at his phone for a couple minutes with thumbs moving. Even when things got heated between the two teams he just checked out of the situation like he wasn't even aware of what was going on. I think if enough veterans were willing to come to the tournament and ref that would be great. They know the rules and they care about the sport. Even the captains of the teams who are on break between matches would be a better option. Stopwatches: They used them at the Michigan Invite for shot clock and they worked great. Then there's no argument over people who can't count properly.
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Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on Apr 12, 2011 21:20:23 GMT -6
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Post by rmozalewski on Apr 12, 2011 21:34:33 GMT -6
We can all agree that the reffing situation wasn't the best. Kudos to Felix for trying out a new idea and implementing it the best he could. With the teams that we had the pleasure of facing off against this past weekend, if there was a discrepancy about anything a timeout was called. Myself and the other captains of my team met with the captains of the team we were facing and talked about it. This usually solved the problem at hand and there was no arguing/yelling at the refs (at least for a majority of the time).
I like the idea of having alums ref the games and getting paid for it. Like stated before, what better than having someone who loves and understands the game to ref AND get paid!
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Apr 12, 2011 22:44:17 GMT -6
none of us are perfect, no human is. Speak for yourself, us Gods do work. hahaha JK!
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Post by Mike 'Squeak' Youngs on Apr 12, 2011 22:51:04 GMT -6
I personally think the biggest problems with the refs was that there was only one of them per game. NCDA dodgeball needs a minimum of 4 moving refs.
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Post by rmozalewski on Apr 12, 2011 22:59:01 GMT -6
I personally think the biggest problems with the refs was that there was only one of them per game. NCDA dodgeball needs a minimum of 4 moving refs. Very true, almost forgot that there was only one game that we had more than one ref.
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Post by Zigmister on Apr 13, 2011 2:04:03 GMT -6
From my experience at the CDO:
I gave each potential Official a copy of the new Rulebook, Casebook, and Officiating Manual [v 0.62 at the time]. They said they all went over them before hand. The only noticeable consequence of this was that one group actually set the opening rush balls up according to Stokes' proposed 3/4/3, for the first game... but that was fixed pretty quickly.
I had 7 quasi-paid volunteer officials for two courts. They were paid in pizza/gatorade/gratitude, and a few put it on their resume (that they Officiated an official NCDA Tournament).
Four officials [dressed in usual official's attire) were Intramural Officials at their respective schools, Moody and DePaul. My roommate who officiated was Head of the Officials' Association at DePaul, and part the Intramurals for 4 years. The intramural officials preformed excellent. Even though they never played seriously or officiated dodgeball prior, their intramural experience allowed them to "control" the game. That being said, the teams participating we're largely self policing. As it should be. They worked the standard 4 official mechanic.
The other squad consisted of DePaul Dodgeball alumni volunteers, who were generally excited to help out. I personally trained one, and the other two had previously officiated at past Nationals. (Ben "Steve Nash" Rusch & Tony "Thrillhouse" V). They received pizza, etc & a free dodgeball shirt. They did whine a little bit at the end for working so long, but that's what DePaul Dodgeballers usually like to do. I'm disappointed we couldn't get a random game going at the end, but with everyone playing 4 games a piece i don't blame the guests. They worked the 3 official mechanic, 2 timekeepers and a Head Ref, w/o a Asst Ref.
Both squads rotated responsibilities throughout... mostly passing around the shot clock since that job sucks. Both squads had standard equipment dictated in the officiating manual: all had whistles, stopwatches, etc. They all knew the signals, because I taught them.
I was on hand to sort out any discrepancies, major stuff didn't really occur. The Officials already took care of the decision by the time I got there, and stuck to it with authority.
^^^^ All of that just for your consideration ^^^^
Therefore I really think that the quality of the Dodgeball Official relies on the personality of the person. Knowing the Rules is just a plus - They have to be able to take crap but stick to their calls. They have to want to pay attention to the game.
I don't remember who, but I remember someone bringing up that the Officials could work on Commission: For instance: After each match, the teams would rate the Official(s) of the match based on their Officiating ability (and hopefully not badly just because of a loss). Officials with more points/higher rating get more pay/benefits.
I spent time writing an Officiating Manual in order to try to improve this situation in the League. I also plan to write a guide to hosting matches and tournaments, and putting it on the site. I write because I care, and I believe that it's really not that difficult to find a good official, as long as you look at the underlining personality of that prospective Official.
I'd be willing to Officiate at Nationals if I'm not playing. I think that a volunteer system should be put into place, then a drafting system to pick up any slack. Yes, try to pay alumni to ref. I would have/stated that I would pay & house Bomis to Officiate the CDO. There's a way to make sure your Official issues don't become an Issue, if you have the dedication.
None of this comments on WKU's Nationals officiation. I would say I have no comment for that, as I don't really have the desire to go into it.
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