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Post by kentuckybrown on Oct 22, 2012 6:41:43 GMT -6
Due to something that occurred this past weekend I feel it necessary to mention... In my opinion sportsmanship is one of the most important values that should be showcased on the Dodgeball court.
If you aren't showing great sportsmanship on the court by taunting or cursing, that can easily translate into "letting the small things go", such as staying in after a hit or cycling back onto the court when you shouldn't. When that happens player safety can become an issue with frustrations and tensions building, if contact between players occur it typically won't be pretty. Creating that contact when it isn't necessary in this game is something that I know we have harped on, which is why we have the new break system and eliminated stripping if I recall correctly.
Almost every team I have ever played has been great and I love playing you all. But, if we want to expand the league and do it the right way we have to have the mentality of doing the right things. Sadly, it can hurt not having official officials (See what I did there?! haha) or a governing body that has the ability to enforce the rules when actions go too far on or off the court. Having a governing body can probably create a better sense of sportsmanship and player safety; if a player knows that there will be repercussions for their actions they will be a lot more hesitant to do something inappropriate. But, until then that makes our individual actions that much more important. If you take a hit or its highly debatable you should probably go out, not wait to see if the ref saw it and decide to stay in. (I have spoken to a few captains who agreed with me on the Governing Body idea already.)
I don't think any teams have that mentality of wanting to showcase bad sportsmanship, I think everyone wants to. Maybe it is because I am old fashioned, heck, if you've seen me ref you know I have thrown someone out for cursing in games before(I typically give a warning tho). I even instituted a team rule for us that if you curse on the court, at practice or at a team event you have to drop and do 10 push-ups. It starts with the small stuff and it can easily build up to taunting fans, breaking rules and endangering player safety.
Once again, I love the game and I love playing against other schools. It is just important to stay classy whether you are winning or losing. I know we might not be the best at keeping our calm and being good sports at all times, but it something we try very hard to maintain. (I remember I chewed out and made one of my guys and made him run after he walked over to the other team's side at one of the OSU round robin)
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Post by hiller 87 on Oct 22, 2012 15:35:05 GMT -6
I and the rest of my team agree on all fronts. While there is naturally going to be some trash talking in an athletic game when you put 30 college aged people on the court, taunting is a completely different issue. In my mind, trash talking is a joking way of giving a little grief to the opposition, taunting is when you are purposefully being rude or mean to the other team. I'll admit, MSU Dodgeball does talk a little trash, even I do at times. It's something we're as a team working on fixing. But we do not taunt, and we do not purposefully be jerks to our opponents. There is a rule about not cursing or making profane gestures in the rulebook. There's a rule about not making contact between players. I know that when I reffed the BotV last year at SVSU, I had to give out cards for both obscene language and for illegal contact.
What it comes down to is this- a lot of the problems that occur in the sport that aren't sportsmanlike need to be solved by the referees. This means that when you're reffing, the head ref and assistant ref need to be players who know the rule book, and that have been in the league a while, and can handle pressure filled situations. For example, when we played at the OSU Round Robin, a player from a team flipped off my team with both hands after making a kill. Shoulda been a yellow on the spot- no card was given. Not blaming the referees in any way, just saying that when you ref you need to have your best refs reffing. Not your JV team, not your rookies, I'm talking your captains, presidents, seniors. I know when it's MSU's time to ref, it's going to be me head reffing along with some of our other seniors. In no scenario should a rookie or JV player be the head ref of a match, or the assistant ref, or even the shot clock ref (this early in the semester at least.) A lot of in-game problems and sportsmanship issues can be solved by a good ref.
That said, I believe we need a governing board of captains/elder veteran statesmen, in case that the referees do NOT do their jobs. I don't think that the governing board should have the ability to give a team a win, but a no contest should be able to be given if a team walks off the court for safety issues. There needs to be someway to punish players as well for severe illegal content, for example racism, fighting, disobeying the referee's decisions, etc etc. This governing body, who I believe should be made up of 6-10 current student athletes who are in high standing with the league, should be impartial and be able to dole out a suspension if necessary. Back in the Winter of 09, BGSU and Kent State got into a fight during one of their matches, the players involved were kicked out of their matches and were not allowed to play the rest of the day. That's good. Bad news is that was the last game of the day, it was in the 2nd half, and they were both allowed to come to Nationals (Kent ended up dropping out last minute, but point stands). There needs to be some way to discipline players fairly (I'm not saying "oh we need to suspend Mark Trippiedi because he said the d-word") but we need to be able to make sure that if the teams won't take action against players someone will.
Just my opinion, take it or leave it.
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Post by jmuplaya on Oct 24, 2012 9:30:40 GMT -6
So are you saying that you want to punish the whole team by taking away a win if you have a couple of people who break a few small rules or something questionable?
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Post by hiller 87 on Oct 24, 2012 10:16:08 GMT -6
I'm not saying something questionable at all, I'm saying that a no-contest should be able to be given if there is something major that goes down, whether its a fight or racism or a blatant disregard to a referee's decision (i.e. the ref calls a player out, the player says "screw you" and stays in).
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cg
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Posts: 194
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Post by cg on Oct 24, 2012 10:30:31 GMT -6
I don't think that the governing board should have the ability to give a team a win, but a no contest should be able to be given if a team walks off the court for safety issues. I would argue that officials already have that ability through 4.2.3.3.3 under "promot[ing] a safe environment," though it should probably be made explicit. That doesn't address the situation described, where officials fail to act, but it's a useful tool for officiating crews going forward. Also, Zig, you've got multiple 4.2.3.3.3's in the book.
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Post by vanerme3 on Oct 24, 2012 10:45:38 GMT -6
To be fair, breaking "small rules or something questionable" is something along the lines of briefly stepping out of bounds and not copping to it, or somebody false starting and the captain not being called out. Nobody is suggesting a no contest be called for those rule infractions. Things like physical contact aren't "small". Somebody exclaiming "dammit" when they get out wouldn't get more than a look from an official, but if a team has to (reasonably) walk away due to safety concerns, that deserves more consideration for punishment.
Obviously officials need to make sure things don't get to that point, but if they do, there should definitely be action. I can't really see how anybody can argue to the contrary.
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Post by JMUDodge on Oct 24, 2012 12:34:05 GMT -6
I agree with Mike and cg, in that officials need to be the crux of this dilemma.
Refereeing needs to be fair and legitimate the entirety of the match, it's what prevents a situation from escalating.
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cg
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Posts: 194
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Post by cg on Oct 24, 2012 12:57:45 GMT -6
Somebody exclaiming "dammit" when they get out wouldn't get more than a look from an official, but if a team has to (reasonably) walk away due to safety concerns, that deserves more consideration for punishment. I reply only to point out that the line between punishment and remedial action is a blurry one, just as with the line between a lone player, fan, official, etc, doing something causing a safety issue, and actions that demonstrate or imply a lack of institutional control.
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Post by vanerme3 on Oct 24, 2012 14:08:58 GMT -6
That being said, dodgeball is one of the most difficult sports to officiate. It isn't easy to keep eyes on 30 people, ten balls, and boundary lines. My point is that there should never be this kind of escalation, period. It's our responsibilities as players and captains (and heck, even adults) to act in a way that isn't detrimental to the sport. Competitive-ness is fine, and is even encouraged. But there is never any reason to act like this. Every team deals with bad officiating from time to time.
Also, "fair and legitimate refereeing" is a bit subjective. If a referee makes a call that you disagree with, you're not going to view it as "fair and legitimate" even if he's right. You're going to think you got snubbed. Even if a referee is right 100% of the time (which is unrealistic, obviously), people are still going to complain.
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Oct 25, 2012 2:51:53 GMT -6
So this is clear, I am not picking on anyone specifically here. Just speaking my mind. From the little I heard about the incident that occurred I believe one, it is an officiating problem if precautionary actions were not taken and if something was not done regarding the player(s) involved. One thing I do think that needs to happen is that punishment should be dealt to that individual(s) that started the incident. Those that were involved should be suspended for a certain period and the team(s) should be punished as well. Say one person on a particular team is involved in a scuffle and cause bodily harm to an opponent through physical force. That players should be suspended in my point of view as well as his team in the form of a loss for that particular match. Depending on the situation and the severity of the actions of that player, they would then be given a suspension of however many games. It is completely unacceptable for anyone to harm another player intentionally, other than with a dodgeball, in this game. Some measures need to be taken in order to prevent these occurrences. I understand there is nuts talking and other antics in a game but get over it, we all do it. There is absolutely no reason to go out of your way to harm another player. If you want to beat them do it with a dodgeball in the game. If you cannot, have your captain call time out and sub you out for another person who is not going to make the same mistake you might. I love you all sincerely, and I truly call you all my friends, but if I hear about fighting again I'm gonna come kick the crap out of someone!
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cg
Full Member
Posts: 194
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Post by cg on Oct 25, 2012 8:38:48 GMT -6
So this is clear, I am not picking on anyone specifically here. Just speaking my mind. This has been clear for years; it's how to shut you up that's unclear.
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Oct 25, 2012 11:22:29 GMT -6
Haha Thanks Buddy! I'm pretty sure that nothing was done in this situation. If I heard correctly there wasn't even a card given...
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Post by JMUDodge on Oct 25, 2012 12:12:32 GMT -6
When I mentioned fair and legitimate, I mean in this instance. What the player did was inexcusable and should have been dismissed from the game, however he wasn't even given a card. The captains of our team decided to bench him the following point, which ended up being the last point played.
The referees needed to stand up in this case, but they didn't. We took matters into our own hands and planned to bench him for the remainder of the game if it was to be played out.
We figured that it would be best to not have him in the game in case the situation escalated, and to maintain player safety.
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Post by jmuplaya on Oct 25, 2012 13:05:32 GMT -6
This whole mess was the refs fault. If they had done their job we wouldnt be talkin about this.
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Post by WKU-Perrone-76 on Oct 25, 2012 15:57:40 GMT -6
4.2.3.1 The Officiating Staff are part of Dodgeball only out of necessity. Dodgeball possesses a certain amount of honor and self enforcement of the rules. With ten balls and thirty players on the court at one time, the very nature of the game prevents arbitrating every instance of gameplay. If a player is hit, it is their responsibility and part of the Spirit of the Game to excuse themselves from play and head to the Jail.
That is why the language of these officiating mechanics are largely should and may, rather than will and shall. In addition to preventing and curbing behavior that disrupts gameplay, it is the Official's duty to remain at the side of the court in support of this Spirit of the Game. They offer an impartial set of eyes to a close call. Officials have the final say because of this impartiality, but should only enforce this final despotic gesture when the situation warrants it.
Therefore, an official should not consistently call each and every event in a game. To visualize one instance of this officiating spirit, consider the following: An Official may signal an out on an ambiguous trap, but a clear hit should not require a signal if the recently deceased Player is already walking towards the Jail. A smooth, fair game with limited interruptions in play is the ideal to strive for.
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