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Post by kentuckybrown on Jan 22, 2011 15:45:08 GMT -6
Alright, first off I would like to say thank you to all of the teams that came out. And an extra dose of thanks to WKU, who endured two awful incidents. (I owe you all big time.)
So here are the results:
EMU-Kent 2-1 EMU OSU-WKU 3-2 OSU SVSU-DePaul 8-1 SVSU
UK-EMU 4-0 UK SVSU-OSU 3-0 SVSU Kent-DePaul 4-1 Kent
SVSU-UK 4-0 SVSU WKU-Kent 5-0 WKU OSU-DePaul 3-1 OSU
So on the day the teams were:
DePaul 0-3 SVSU 3-0 Kent 1-2 WKU 1-1 UK 1-1 EMU 1-1 OSU 2-1
Thanks once again and if you have any suggestions to us about how to improve the tournament email us at kentuckydodgeball@gmail.com (So if you want to give us hate mail have at it.)
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Post by Dugans-20-EMU-C on Jan 22, 2011 22:09:50 GMT -6
Zac, You and the University of Kentucky did a wonderful job with this tournament! I know i had a ton of fun, and again EMU played a great set of matches all day long. We were down 2 players won a match, and had it 1-0 at halftime against UK so i know i was happy. This was great prep for the MDC, and i don't think i heard one complaint all day long. Thanks for putting up with us at your place. We really appreciated it! I was informed on the way home you got a letter from your neighbor and i'm so sorry that even happened.
Kent and Depaul. I can't wait until Nationals. Thanks for letting us come hang out for a while because that was a blast. Its a shame we had pregnant dogy whiny people in the hotel =/. They ruin all the fun, though the night ended up being such an adventure anyway maybe it was the best thing for us...
I'm bummed we didn't get to play WKU, but that's not to blame on them because we should have =/
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Post by Zigmister on Jan 23, 2011 22:48:19 GMT -6
There were so many people that played 2 games? we played three games and you tried to get us to play a fourth? I'm tired thinking about it, but I'm pretty glad we got the giant game going. More balls = more fun. and DePaul had a lot of fun - i'll write more tomorrow
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Post by WKU-Perrone-76 on Jan 24, 2011 15:00:58 GMT -6
I don't want to start a big fiasco or anything, I just want to ask a question. On Saturday during the OSU/WKU game there was a controversial call and I just want to get others opinions on how the situation was handled, or what could have been done differently, or was this the right call.
The game was EXTREMELY close and very competitive, but not in the way where everyone was loosing their nuts and screaming at each other the whole time, it was actually (in my opinion) very relaxed and their was a mutual respect among both teams. At the end of the first point a ball was thrown in the neutral zone and tagged myself on the foot, it was hard for me to tell whether the thrower was parallel to me or if he was throwing backwards (a backwards throw would make it a dead ball and I would still be in), since I was the last player in I asked the official whether the ball was thrown backwards or not and he just gave me the deer-in-headlights expression, so I asked the OSU players, no one really had any idea, so we decided that it would be a 50/50 call and that I was out, resulting in the score becoming OSU 1-0 WKU. I was fine with that, the official said that in another very close call the favor would go toward WKU since OSU had gotten that call.
The game went on and nearing the end of the first half there was a shot clock violation against OSU. So the play continues with 75 seconds remaining in the first half, I remember this because I yelled out "75 seconds guys, finish them off!" and one of my smartass players replied "Who says 75 seconds?? 1:15 maybe?" So either way the point continued and WKU was able to pick off the three remaining OSU players with somewhere under 75 seconds remaining. End of first half OSU 1-1 WKU.
We started the second half (which should have lasted somewhere between 25 minutes and 26:15 minutes). OSU wins another point so the score is now OSU 2-1 WKU. WKU wins another point so now the game is tied OSU 2-2 WKU. The official said there were 12 minutes left after the score became tied. Now if any of you have ever played WKU or OSU, you know that both of our playing styles are slow and defensive, is it possible that two points were played in 13-14 minutes? Yes, but unlikely.
This is where the controversial call comes into play. WKU had 2 players remaining, OSU had 4. One of the WKU players was holding a ball, blocked a OSU throw, fumbled his ball, then regained position of his ball (so he's safe), a little more than a second or two later he drops the ball, so both I and the OSU players look to the referee for a call as to whether he is out or not, the ref gives no call, and has no idea about what to do, so he just ignores us. It was a very close call, so for some reason I decided to just tell him to come out and that he dropped his ball. With 1 WKU player remaining, OSU gets him out. The official says that their is 1:30 remaining, the once we look as his clock it says 28:30. The game lasted at LEAST 2:15 minutes longer than it should have. Since the score was tied and both teams had players remaining on the court an overtime should have been played had the clock been stopped on time.
When Jared Matthews of OSU, myself, the officials, and Zac Brown of UK got together to discuss how we were going to handle the situation. Zac made an executive decision that OSU would get to choose whether they would rather take the win or go into overtime, I was not given a choice. After Jared went and talked to his team they decided to take the W. I told him it was a hard call to make and it was nutsty how they made him make the decision.
I was just wondering how this should have been handled, or if this was handled correctly.
Going strictly off of the rules, logic, and no team favoritism; I say that it should have gone into overtime, just because both teams had players remaining and the time where the point should have ended. I don't hold a grudge against OSU, if fact they are my favorite team to play just because the competition is so evenly matched. We all stood around after the game just talking, there were no hard feelings or anything. I just want to make sure that nothing like this happens again to any team, because it sucks to just hand over a decision like that to one team. The officials really should have made the call on this one, not a team.
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Post by murphy7 on Jan 24, 2011 16:13:07 GMT -6
1. It's illegal to throw backwards at a player? 2. Sounds like a close call either way... Ref probably thought the play was through and had no clue what you were looking at him for. 3. You guys got screwed... If Zac runs for commissioner, don't vote for him, that was probably the worst decision he could have made. I would like to hear his reasoning on it.
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Post by WKU-Perrone-76 on Jan 24, 2011 16:37:33 GMT -6
I could have sworn that throwing backwards was in the rules some where, but now that I just looked for it, I can't find it anywhere... Maybe it was one of the things we had talked about, but when Bomis deleted his account, it deleted all the threads that he started.
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Jan 24, 2011 18:36:13 GMT -6
It was in the rules Felix, and I'm pretty sure it was removed already. I specificly remember talking about it this year.
And letting a team pick whether they want to take a W or go into overtime is a bunch of bull. That game should count at a Tie for both teams and then they would therefore both recieve 1 point instead of OSU taking 2 points and WKU recieving none. Just my thoughts.
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Post by sweeter9 on Jan 24, 2011 19:27:55 GMT -6
Agreed. Also, the issue about the official not making a call is like in basketball when an official swallows his whistle. No call is made so play continues on unless another official sees something different.
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Jan 24, 2011 19:48:37 GMT -6
Yeah, like I said, this definitely needs to be changed. If anyone from OSU is on here, we need to talk about this...
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Post by hiller 87 on Jan 24, 2011 20:04:08 GMT -6
I dont want to be "that guy" but i don't think its fair to OSU to take away their win, I fully agree that the decision to give OSU the choice to take a W or go to OT was not the best decision, but I don't think we should retroactively change the result of a match, just because it opens a whole can of worms (i.e. say we watch video of a match and a player blatantly is out via some manner but stays in, should we change the result of those points as well? Or a balls over call that should have/shouldn't have been made, etc. etc.). If anything I'd say a do-over could be done (the NBA does this very rarely where they'll replay the ending of games if a player is mistakenly fouled out of a game or some other extenuating circumstance) but I don't think either team would have the time or opportunity to replay the last moments of the game so that is probably out of the equation.
That's just my opinion however, and unless I'm mistaken there's nothing in the rule book stating that we can/can't change the final result of the game.
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Jan 24, 2011 20:32:36 GMT -6
The thing is though, it's not a specific play that happened that gave OSU the win. The game was actually over... finished. The game should have been tied at that point. Then instead of just calling it a tie or going into overtime they hand a W on a silver platter to OSU saying take it or play overtime. That's just not right.
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Post by hiller 87 on Jan 24, 2011 20:41:20 GMT -6
That's very true, but I do still think though that as unfair of an ending to the game as it was for WKU that it'd be equally unfair to OSU to get their win taken away however. But still, just my personal opinion.
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Post by WKU-Perrone-76 on Jan 24, 2011 21:07:31 GMT -6
I know this is a little biased (coming from me) but would it be bad if we treated this as an overtime situation. Like OSU would still get the 2 points for the win, but WKU would also get 1 point for not losing in regular time, they just didn't win.
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Post by Zigmister on Jan 24, 2011 21:16:39 GMT -6
The backwards throw rule was one of my new proposed rules: It is a DePaul rule and only lasted a week in the rulebook once we got the forum thread. I specifically took it out because of the exact situation you explained - it's hard to enforce after the fact. But for DePaul it acts as a "don't be a d" rule which is more self enforced.
Felix, that rule was in the proposed rulebook I printed out for you all the way back in October at the WIU Round Robin, but it's been out of the book since late november. Which I think it was taken out in version 0.6. And its not in the current rulebook for this season. You could have brought me over, I have an intimate coziness with the rulebook.
On the loss of possession call, what did the OSU player do to cause him to drop the ball? Did he get ready to catch another, or bounce pass it for another player? On a call like that, it helps for the Referee to see if he or she dropped the ball on purpose, or if it was a continuation of the bumble.
It's a blown call by the Official and was enforced by the Event Manager, but in this situation you can't go back and fix it. Overtime would have been the best way to remedy this bad officiating call, it should have been a do over. aka overtime.
Giving a OT point to WKU and OSU the win sounds like the fairest resolution.
My call is points and candy for everyone present at the Invite!
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Post by cabuckeye on Jan 24, 2011 21:21:30 GMT -6
I have a couple of points to make on this matter.
1. I consistently asked the refs after every point how much time was left in the match, and the only time (before the match was over at 28 minutes or whatever) I saw the clock was after the backwards throw discussion, and it was still running (i.e. the ref didn't stop it when play was halted for a discussion).
2. On the dropped ball block, the OSU out line was in fact arguing for the player to be out but in a situation like that I believe it is the players decision to make. With 30 players and ten balls on the clock (even though there was less at the time) it is hard to make every call correctly. There has to be a certain level of player accountability and going out on the honor system within the game.
3. The officials of the game wanted no part in making a definitive call. I hate to criticize officials because I know how hard it is to ref a game. The problem I had was them not making a call and sticking to it. Their response to the backward ball debacle was they wanted to line the three players back in and put all ten balls for an open rush. I could have cared less if they agreed with Felix and called it a dead ball as long as they made the call and stuck to it (even if it was wrong)
4. The time issue would have completely changed the game. If it is 4 vs 1 (or 2) and there is 1:30 left on the clock, the game would have been played completely differently than if there was what we thought was 4 or 5 minutes on the clock. I am not denying that WKU got totally and completely hosed on almost every tight call in the match. Our team would at least expect that the clock be kept correctly regardless of how bad the officials are. Teams can compensate for bad refs by being honest and calling themselves out. Teams cannot keep time for themselves while playing.
I apologized to Felix after the game, I and our team knows it was a nutsty situation. But as a team we felt that we should not be punished for refs not being able to keep the time. It was a close game at the end and if the same thing happened in WKU's favor we would expect them to take the win.
I wish facilities requests didn't have to be submitted so far ahead of time here so you guys could come up like you asked about and we could have a rematch.
I wish WKU luck going forward in their season and I personally feel terrible about what happened.
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