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Post by svcard27 on Nov 22, 2010 23:36:52 GMT -6
depends on what insight is being shed.. but thats a different conversation. post a reason why you think it would be more legit, plz.
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Post by woojumbo on Nov 22, 2010 23:42:12 GMT -6
Because a team could recruit amazing athletic kids to play, who dont attend the school, pretty much the only way to stop this is validate players. I played in the most competitive division of premier soccer, in my highschool days, and it was required to validate our age, and that we only played on 1 team in the division, to prevent older kids from playing on younger teams and stacking teams.
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Post by Dugans-20-EMU-C on Nov 22, 2010 23:45:16 GMT -6
You can't recruit outside athletic players because they would not have a valid ID. An ID cannot be easily obtained if you do not attend a school, and i don't see many people outside of the school wanting to travel several hours in most of our cases to play in a useless tournament that has no meaning to them especially if they do not attend that university. Valid school ID should be sufficient for nationals.
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Post by svcard27 on Nov 22, 2010 23:59:09 GMT -6
Havent people ever heard of fake ID's? and we've already determined that alumni sometimes still have their ID's and this was a real issue at nationals last year or have people forgotten those bg alums that played on saturday? I guess my biggest question is what is there to hide with not wanting to present a class schedule? Im not asking for your social security number, your DOB or even your mother's maiden name.. im simply asking you to show me you're college id and your class schedule. im honestly alittle confused as to why this is still being disagreed with?
what LOGICAL explanation can anyone give me for not providing a valid college ID AND valid, up to date, class schedule?
no, because i dont want to is not a logical explanation...
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Post by Dugans-20-EMU-C on Nov 23, 2010 0:12:26 GMT -6
i'll be honest. I refuse to bring an official transcript to a dodgeball match with me. Not because i do not attend EMU, or because im not really a student, but honestly it has every single piece of PERSONAL info on it. I can be Identity thefted if left in the wrong place, if it gets stolen, ect... Will this happen IDK but i refuse to chance it since i have already had a problem with my credit card. If we need official transcripts i will step down as captain of EMU. I'm sorry but i don't need my ss #, personal info and anything else just sitting around for any average joe to take or read.
That is not meant to sound harsh or take a shot at anybody but since my identity theft happened before im paranoid about personal info being anywhere except in my possession. Period!
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Post by jackattack on Nov 23, 2010 0:28:51 GMT -6
It's unfortunate that my first post in over half a year has to come in a thread as despicable as this one. But as a former voice of reason and/or honesty, I suppose I should jump in.
The only reason this issue is being brought up is because of over-competitiveness. Undoubtedly, all who know me know that over-competitiveness is something I think should be eradicated from our league entirely. We're all subject to it, but it seems like it's becoming a mantra of some, and that is concerning to me. And I'm not speaking from one side on this problem...
1) If you're not a student at a school in our league, you should be more mature and know better than to compete in a collegiate club league of which you are not technically part of. I am out of dodgeball now, and I can tell you with 100% certainty that your arm will be better for it. I'll leave you guys to quibble about whether part time students should be allowed, but I'd also advise you to pull your heads out of your butts. Ya can't win them all.
2) Mind your own business. If you're worried that one single player or even a group of players on another team isn't attending the university they're representing, let the university handle the issue. In this case I would say the most you should concern yourself with is alerting Bomis or Jazzy to the issue and let them look into it. If you're truly worried about losing (which I know some of you are) to a team with a player that isn't a student of that team's representative institution, and want to use this issue as an excuse or an arguing point, I would say that you have much, much bigger fish to fry. Quit being antagonistic and play the game the way it's meant to be played; the fun way. And fun, by my definition, doesn't include ruining the sliver of legitimacy we have, which is the trust and respect for each other to go out and play a sport that is honest-to-goodness legalized assault. Pull your head out and turn the other cheek.
As I sort of indicated previously, the source of all this derision is the ever-growing macho aspect of the league and the reliance on competition. Those concerned with this issue need to reevaluate their priorities and realize that the league suffers as a whole when we try to turn this great thing into a something so serious that it's impossible for anyone to have any fun.
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Post by DPU Nash on Nov 23, 2010 0:55:07 GMT -6
If teams are so over-competitive and obsessed with winning-at-all-costs that they are using and recruiting players that are "ringers" who don't attend the school, I am really, REALLY glad to be out of the league. Several players have brought up the idea in past threads and in conversation that dodgeball could and should have the goal of one day being recognized as an NCAA-level sport. If you kids continue on this route, the only things that the league will have in common with NCAA sports are cheating scandals and sullied reputations.
I understand the desire to win. I do. It's not something DePaul really did a ton of while I was a member of the team, and in hindsight, it would've been great if we could have won more games and not been considered as solely "that really funny team that can be run over". At the same time, I had the most fun in my college life going out with my friends and throwing nuts at people. On a week by week basis during the club's Monday and Thursday night sessions, I was on hundreds of winning efforts and hundreds of losing efforts. I don't remember individual wins and losses - I remember hilarious, epic, and brutal moments. The game is different for everyone, sure, but some people only remember the scoreboard - that's a problem. Blatant cheating, and also the panties-bunching of other teams when it happens, will only lead to the end of this league being a fun activity.
Take care of this now. Heed the words of a grizzled vet who can still trick shot the hell out of anyone.
And note: this doesn't necessarily mean to bring in the full body scanners and pat downs to verify people. This may mean toning down the league.
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Post by stokesj on Nov 23, 2010 8:35:30 GMT -6
Hm, this is a tough issue. Personally, I won't ever ask for more than just a school ID, but according to the rules in place at this point in time schools might be required to supply more than that. So if we wanted to go about this the correct way why don't we have Stein or someone else start a new thread in the rule section to either clarify this rule or change it so we don't run into issues again.
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Post by svcard27 on Nov 23, 2010 9:37:27 GMT -6
I cannot believe how petty this is getting. Never once did i mention a transcript and i specifically stated that i didnt want ss, dob, etc... If you're going to respond to my posts please do it with regards to what i actually write. yes, stein has his own issue with said player, but i have seen this as an opportunity to talk about the league as a whole, just as i did with the backing out of games that apparently was fixed. sorry for being pro-active.
Bomis: the reason I said a valid schedule is because if you go through the trouble of registering for classes only to play play dodgeball and then cancel all of them, you probably deserve to play just based on effort..kidding of course, but i hope you understand what Im saying. we have never been the kind of league to copy what everyone else does, so why bring up the other club sports at all? and if the ncaa is the ultimate goal, even if its way down the road, how is this not an obvious step. and as far as trying to keep the rule book shorter or whatever you were trying to say, this is an extra few words at most. this just seems like a want to save yourself from extra paperwork, which i've already volunteered to do so relax.
jack: i dont personally know you, never had the privilege of actually meeting you, but with the league becoming bigger and better the need for black and white rules is evident. i think my biggest concern with comments made by the Depaul vets and team in general, is the fact that you guys were so against the majority of rules that dont openly allow fun. you guys were against it so much that ive even heard rumors that you dont play by the ncda rules unless you have to. this isnt a personal attack, please dont take it as such, just a mere observation, one that is open to being corrected.
no one has addressed the issue that we had an incident at NATIONALS this past year. our biggest tournament of the year was left with a bitter after taste because there were alumni who played in a game on saturday, a game that proved costly to seeding(not going to open that can of worms i promise). obviously student id's arent the end all be all answer to this argument, those alums could have still had their id's, and they played. we have here proof that this rule would have been blatantly broken. I would like to point out that a simple class schedule and student ID is a completely reasonable thing to ask for. these schedules dont have any information besides students name, school name and classes registered for, nothing else.
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Post by stokesj on Nov 23, 2010 9:46:45 GMT -6
I would register for the most epic classes if we regularly had to do this just for the sake of it being on my schedule. I would promptly change them to my actual classes of course but when I print off the schedule I would try my hardest have like "Monster trucks 101," "How to stop a zombie apocalypse," or "Blowing stuff up 312." Just for reference it's blowing stuff up 312 because I'm too good for the 101 class.
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Post by DPU-Lange-1 on Nov 23, 2010 12:03:15 GMT -6
I think a school ID and a copy of each player on the roster's schedule is not too over the top, and is sufficient proof of enrollment.
Another idea: As far as DePaul goes, we have a good relationship with our associate director of club sports so this would be easy for us. What if each team were required to turn in a roster of the players that are going to be attending the tournament to their Club Sports director, they would have to validate that the entire roster is enrolled through the student directory (I'm pretty sure our club sports director has access to a more confidential set of student records). After validation that club director must send either a letter or email to the tournament coordinator with a validated roster, to which all of the ID cards must be matched with at the tournament.
In the event of last minute changes, the host school could have students in question log onto their student accounts online to prove their enrollment.
This is a little over the top in my opinion, and just more work for teams, but if everyone is so scared of illegal players participating in the tournament, this would get rid of the problem IMO.
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Post by Dugans-20-EMU-C on Nov 23, 2010 12:39:10 GMT -6
This is rediculous... i played varsity level sports as a freshman. Do you think other teams cried? No! My H.S. played other colleges. Again did we or they cry? No! You play whoever goes out on the field or court against you. If you are that worried about losing your priorities in life are messed up. I play dodgeball to have fun and stay active. I don't care if i'm playing the all star team of the world in dodgeball. If that is my opponent then that is who i have to play. If we have to go through a cavity search in order to play dodgeball then im done. Take your tampons out, grow a pair and quit crying... Beat whoever is put on the court and move on. God Damn!
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Post by stokesj on Nov 23, 2010 12:46:44 GMT -6
shazam
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Post by svcard27 on Nov 23, 2010 12:48:36 GMT -6
Dugan's.. you better be ready to back that mouth up on the court. Thats a promise
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Post by stokesj on Nov 23, 2010 12:51:00 GMT -6
I've got dibs on Verlander!
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