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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Apr 22, 2011 13:55:02 GMT -6
For those who have been completely oblivious to the dodgeball world since Nationals, the opening rush has been changed. With the change, we have come to realize that the current 5-0-5 with balls having to be brought back to the baseline isn't the best. So what do you all feel should be the way it is changed for next season?
3-4-3 meaning 3 on the neutral zone line, 4 at half court line, and 3 at the other neutral zone line. Then obviously 5-0-5 and 4-2-4 you can figure out. lol
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Post by ssrman on Apr 22, 2011 15:22:59 GMT -6
Why are you trying to kill Dodgeball? What was wrong with how it was before?
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Apr 22, 2011 15:50:38 GMT -6
Hahaha you are talking to the wrong person on that... I HATE that we changed the opening rush. But if it's going to be changed we might as well do it right. I want to change it back, but this is really the only option that's going to work right now.
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Post by ssrman on Apr 22, 2011 16:21:37 GMT -6
I'd love someone to answer my question, "What was wrong with how it was before?"
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Apr 22, 2011 16:36:56 GMT -6
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Post by ssrman on Apr 22, 2011 17:11:54 GMT -6
You know what? I'm not gonna argue with you because this new rule may actually help certain teams, but I still think it takes away the fun of this sport.
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Apr 22, 2011 17:26:29 GMT -6
Dude, your arguing with the wrong person. hahaha I WANT the opening rush to stay the way it is. But at the captains meeting it was changed to 5-0-5 rule where you still have to take it back to the baseline. So Jimmy Stokes cam up with a great idea to make it 3-4-3 with the balls instantly live. Which I thought was awesome, so i figured we would ask people and try to get it changed to the 3-4-3 rule and have balls live instantly.
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Post by trippiedigv12 on Apr 22, 2011 23:02:48 GMT -6
I voted for 5 balls to each team because I'm an "eff the run-up, lets play dodgeball" advocate. Balls in the hand are always better than balls on the ground.
But, lets say you want to make the run up something cool at the start of each point, then this repost from the rules fourm might be of use to you:
**** **** ****
We tried out a number of these today. Heres the cliff notes version:
-All "balls are immediately live" variations offer a satisfactory alternative to having two parties run headlong at the balls in the center. Which is to say, making the balls immediately live will make you wonder why there were ever ten balls in the middle to begin with.
-In a 3-4-3 formation where the balls are live on contact, the game develops in a way as to where the more aggressive team will always begin with the 7-3 advantage. This could be problematic for more passive, defense-oriented teams. If a slower team with a smaller quantity of dominant arms runs past the first line of balls, they are easily picked off by the other team.
-the 5-0-5 formation, again, balls live on contact, gives a passive team more of a chance to counter a strategy by an aggressive team, and is thusly, more fair to start. But if you have two passive teams playing each other, you essentially run into the issue that people complained about in having to return the balls, which is that no one throws off the run up.
I would say that the 3-4-3 (balls are live) is the most exciting version of the run-up to date. Then the 5-0-5 (balls are live) is a close second. Followed by the monstrosity of the 0-10-0, and finally the current rule of 5-0-5 (balls not live until returned) which is the least exciting.
Not having to return the balls completely changes the run-up for the better, but I would keep in mind that the whole thing with starting 5-5 is that it prevents a situation where one team always has the ball advantage to start in every point. Then again, we may foster aggression on both sides, and get the best of both worlds.
Officially I say: the quicker you can get balls in players hands the better. I like a lot of aspects of starting with live balls. Probably not enough to change the rule as it currently stands, but if enough people are worried about an exciting first seven seconds of the match (because clearly, no one agrees with me that we should try to make the rest of the game more exciting), live balls are the way to go.
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Post by stokesj on Apr 23, 2011 0:26:01 GMT -6
Personally, I thought the 4-2-4 was best followed by the 5-0-5 with both scenarios having auto-live balls. That way teams that are speedier/more aggressive get an early ball advantage but also without having the cluster ef in the middle of the court. When we ran the 3-4-3 auto-live beginning there were so many people and so much going on in the middle of the court, even someone that's been playing 5 years of dedicated dodgeball was confused by the epic commotion. The 4-2-4 still offers exciting teeth gritting action for the fight of those extra two balls, and it still helps alleviate the danger of the run up. I wish this were a decision matrix instead of a simple poll, that way I could rank which scenario is best to worst.
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Post by stokesj on Apr 23, 2011 0:27:15 GMT -6
I still suggest teams try out each idea during practice to see which they think is best.
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Post by Spencer Jardine - SVSU on Apr 23, 2011 10:25:33 GMT -6
Damn you McCarty I was in the process of making a mini research paper on this. I HATE OUR NEW OPENING RUSH!!! I will be completely honest, I think our fans are going to think its a joke. We NEED to make sure we keep it exciting. My suggestion is we go to the idea I came up with on the fly at the nationals meeting. 3-4-3 with the 3 balls on your throw line being active. Think about it, nothing will be more epic or exciting that 3 separate gladiator matches in the middle as teams battle for the possession of the remaining 4 balls. On top of that, injuries will be prevented, no one in their right mind is going to run up to the 4 neutral balls knowing myself or someone like Fisher will be waiting with them armed with a ball. It would be a suicide run. WE NEED TO FIX THIS!!!
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Post by knguyen1024 on Apr 23, 2011 12:54:37 GMT -6
i dont really see the point in putting the balls on the neutral line for the 3-4-3. can we just start with 3 balls each and 4 on the middle?
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cg
Full Member
Posts: 194
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Post by cg on Apr 23, 2011 19:42:27 GMT -6
-In a 3-4-3 formation where the balls are live on contact, the game develops in a way as to where the more aggressive team will always begin with the 7-3 advantage. This could be problematic for more passive, defense-oriented teams. If a slower team with a smaller quantity of dominant arms runs past the first line of balls, they are easily picked off by the other team. I'm not so sure. For example, let's take two people who have no business playing dodgeball: Me, and McCarthy. There isn't a chance in heck I can outrun McCarthy to midcourt. He'll get there every time. However, if he's running straight for midcourt I don't need to beat him; I grab a dodgeball on the way and throw right where he's headed. He's going full steam and will have to work against his own momentum to avoid a 15-ft throw, which is pretty unlikely. If he slides, he's out. If he's hit, he's out. If he jumps out of the way, I'm still headed straight at that dodgeball and can probably get it before he does. Now, McCarthy's not a complete idiot, so he'll probably grab a dodgeball on the way to midcourt as well. That just puts you in the same position as 90% of the gameplay. The real question is how many people are teams going to send: 3 - everyone grabs a dodgeball and charges forward to midcourt 7 - three grab a dodgeball and protect or attack, four charge to midcourt unarmed Or some combination? The thing that I like about this concept is that it allows for variation. Last year, there were basically two options, "run the dodgeballs back" and "pass them back and hope for a quick relay." The rule you guys have set up now allows for no options and will start the same way every time (for that reason I would suggest changing it to 5-0-5 live on the whistle at the very least). Whether it's 3-4-3 or some other distribution, there's a chance for some very active dodgeball right from the get-go.
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Post by stokesj on Apr 24, 2011 0:14:23 GMT -6
Has anyone (other than gvsu) tried out the different variations yet?
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Post by mccarthy55cmu on Apr 24, 2011 0:59:16 GMT -6
I know WKU did the 5-0-5 during practice after Nationals. I heard from one of the guys and he said it was HORRIBLE. There was no point in running up to the neutral zone line then running back. Idk if they tried the other variations though. I'll relay it to CMU and tell them to give it a try.
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